Forest Service again being difficult for the Black Dog!

[Tawmass]

All,
Just so you know what organizations go through hosting events, please read through this lengthy email thread between the USFS and I (start from the bottom and work your way up). Extremely unprofessional and biased. I urge you to email the Mt. Hood Forest Supervisor Gary Larson at: glarson@fs.fed.us and politely/methodically explain your with how the Mt. Hood National Forest is treating responsible motorized recreation! Could use some help here, folks! Please CC me in your reponses - thanks in advance!
-Tom
email: TawmN@aol.com
PS: Here is the main headquarters for Mt. Hood N.F. for phone or mail contact:

Mt. Hood National Forest Headquarters
16400 Champion Way
Sandy, Oregon 97055
Hours: Monday - Saturday 7:30am - 4:30pm
Closed on National Holidays &12:00pm - 1:00pm on Saturdays
Telephone: Voice: (503) 668-1700 TTY: (503) 668-1431 FAX: (503) 668-1794

===============================================

I am not new to OHVs Tom and I know the difference between a dual sport tour, a trials event, and a motocross race. I cut my teeth with dirtbikes in Colorado in 1978-80 (riding a DT-400 Yamaha beast), and spent a year with them in So California with a 350 mile system (using a TT-350 Yamaha and Honda ATVs). The only thing I got wrong is the date and your name. We are short-handed and don't have much time for this sort of thing. If we can settle a route, I am going to suggest that it stay the same each year forever until there are new OHV routes. This is the same tact we are taking with the SCCA sportscar race here...same route each year.

The Forest Plan is the overall management plan for the forest...check the website. It shows what trails are open to what uses. Other than the wet trail at Huxley, I am not closing things to you that are not already closed. You get to ride what is open to motorcycles now and nothing more. The agency has no major bias against OHVs, but we are also not funded or staffed to spend much time with commercial events like your's. Sorta like how we are not going to build you any trails unless someone else pays the bills. I forgot one thing -- we will be going into what is called Cost Recovery by next year which means you would pay us in advance to review a proposal...beyond the $80 permit fee and that would include the cose of resource specialists that consider the impacts of the event.

You may feel things went better with Dennis, but my neighbor/friend Dennis tells me things didn't go well with your group riding where they were not authorized in years past. He was nice. I am not Dennis. You can call me a cranky old fart, but I have little patience/tolerance for people trying to push the envelope with recreation events.

Bottom line: You need to take it or leave it as I have no time to negotiate things further. I did get your insurance certificate today, thanks.

Doug Jones
Recreation & Lands
Mt. Hood National Forest
541.352.6002 x682
Fax 541.352.7365
cell 503.708.3904
dgjones@fs.fed.us

==============================================="Don Amador" <damador@cwo.com>
06/30/2005 12:50 MST

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please respond to "Don Amador" <damador@cwo.com>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To <TawmN@aol.com>, <dgjones@fs.fed.us>

cc
"Jerry Ingersoll" <jingersoll@fs.fed.us>, <ncard@fs.fed.us>, <rwiley@fs.fed.us>, <pnorman@fs.fed.us>, <mhhamilton@fs.fed.us>, <jthornton@fs.fed.us>, <sjfletcher@fs.fed.us>, <bchamberlain@fs.fed.us>, <gwoodcock@fs.fed.us>, <kslagle@fs.fed.us>, <kwalker@fs.fed.us>, <jtierney@fs.fed.us>, <mhernandez@fs.fed.us>, <dbambe@fs.fed.us>, <cmadrid@fs.fed.us>, <arykoff@fs.fed.us>, <glarson@fs.fed.us>

Subject
Re: Blackdog motorcycle tour permit and closures

Tom,

I am very disappointed in this turn of events. It appears that management by closures is the preferred option for the Mt. Hood NF.

Don Amador, BRC
www.sharetrails.org
===============================================----- Original Message -----
From: TawmN@aol.com
To: dgjones@fs.fed.us ; TawmN@aol.com
Cc: glarson@fs.fed.us ; arykoff@fs.fed.us ; cmadrid@fs.fed.us ; dbambe@fs.fed.us ; mhernandez@fs.fed.us ; jtierney@fs.fed.us ; kwalker@fs.fed.us ; kslagle@fs.fed.us ; gwoodcock@fs.fed.us ; bchamberlain@fs.fed.us ; sjfletcher@fs.fed.us ; jthornton@fs.fed.us ; mhhamilton@fs.fed.us ; pnorman@fs.fed.us ; rwiley@fs.fed.us ; ncard@fs.fed.us
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Blackdog motorcycle tour permit


Doug,

Your response is extremely disappointing and continues to show the USFS's specific bias against responsible motorized recreation on public lands. Things went relatively well previously with Dennis Beechler, and I realize you are new to this, and thus far things don't appear to be going well. You have numerous facts that are incorrect, so please allow me to explain them once again:

* My last name is spelled "Niemela", not "Niemala".
* My dualsport tour is always on the weekend after the busy July 4th weekend. This is for a reason, since the forest is usually less populated and less chance of any kind of possible conflicts. The dates for this year's event is July 9~10, not July 23-24 as you stated below. I am unsure where your date was founded.
* In item #1 you refer to "100-150 motorcycles in one day" on the Huxley Trail. Again you have the information incorrect as only 10-20% of my riders would enjoy the trail pieces. In years past we've been told "it's too dry", but now it's too wet. The majority of the people prefer the unimproved two-track roads. The median age for a dualsport rider is 40ish and more sedate, hence the smaller percentage of riders doing trail options.
* You refer to the 'Forest Plan', which to the best of my knowledge is still non-existent at this point, although it is in process. When the plan was requested last year through FOIA, I found out that something had been in process for years, but never really got traction. That's when I was asked to give my approval of state OHV funds to facilitate various OHV areas throughout the forest, of which I did. I still would like to see the updated status on this. You also referenced "but they are not listed in the Forest Plan as OHV trails", which investigation shows ONLY McCubbin's Gulch and Rocky Butte/#476 in Barlow District and Burnt Granite/#595, Huxley Lake/#521, Rho Ridge / Urban Link Hawk Mountain/#564/#564A. There are no OHV offerings in ZigZag or Mt. Hood Districts. Not counting McCubbin's Gulch, that is only approximately 16 miles of OHV opportunities.
* Now you say that we cannot use public-access roads at Trillium Lake and Summit Meadows, even though the vehicles are licensed, insured and spark arrested/muffled. Last year at Summit Meadows I had to calm down numerous riders that were verbally assaulted and threatened by the resident Mr. Butt, even though they were merely driving on that public road at my designated 5mph speed. I know Mr. Butt has a long history of other conflicts with the USFS and now I have to pay for his attacks? Next time I should let the lawsuits progress. And authorizing us to use Hwy 26 is a slap in the face. If we wanted to do pavement, we wouldn't need a permit. As a matter of fact, I am wondering why we even need a permit since we are now basically on open, gravel roads at best now?
* Blue Box and Bonnie Meadows trails are not on your "OHV Plan", though we have responsibly used them for almost 10 years via a one-time permit, along with other trails. Of course we did a service by clearing out the trails for future users. Again this shows a bias against responsible motorized recreation and an unwilling to work with a responsible organization to facilitate public access. Now your unwillingness to accept and allow responsible recreation has created the recent issue at Gibson Prairie, since there are no opportunities for the public. You are in essence creating your own problems there by not working with the OHV public.

Now let me re-explain again the premise of my dualsport tour:
* It is NOT a race, but a self-guided, scenic and historic tour on street-legal, insured, muffled, spark arrested motorbikes. The event brings large sums of money to the local economy via food, dining, lodging, etc. We love the forest too, we just choose a different mode of transportation, not unlike mountain bikers, equestrians and hikers. A few years back a ranger with an agenda from Estacada District had sent out a false, blanket email to the entire Mt. Hood Forest list saying it would be "a motocross race through riparian areas". Continuing to fight this bias against responsible motorized recreation continues today.

No, your proposals are not really acceptable, or in good faith (in my opinion), but I will once again follow it nonetheless. I followed it last year after the false and unproven claim by Mr. Thornton that my riders rode off the submitted course in '03. The pictures he took were weeks/months after my event and I was not even informed of this until a year later, just before my '04 event. The tracks left from the pictures [he took] could have been left by anyone else at any other time. Again, a bias or 'witch hunting' towards responsible use that obviously is still propagating to this day. Speaking of last year, after submitting my event route in advance, I was never informed of a Barlow Road wagon train that was also in process the same day of my event. This created a situation that could amost be perceived as 'creating conflict'. Fortunately my folks were polite and courteous.

So you know, I have always organized my events with high standards, hence the reason so many people come from so far away to participate in the scenic/historic tour. The state exhaust-note limit is 99db, but I only allow 94db. I have asked repeatedly over the years for USFS presence at my event's morning rider's meetings (to help with sound testing, discuss public-land issues, etc.), but have only had presence a couple times, and then it was unknown to me at the time - stealth I guess. Again, doesn't appear to be in good faith. I have openly asked for a USFS person to go with me on my proposed routes, but still no offers. Most other dualsport events throughout the nation have little reference to riding in urban or public areas and speed - I specifically specify riders to slow down, be quiet and courteous. My course markings are always removed on the same day. Among other things, we pick up our (and other's) trash and report criminal activities who violate our forest to the authorities.

It is clear that the Mt. Hood N.F. is unwilling to work with my (and other) organizations for a responsible event and specifically to motorized recreation, as opposed to neighboring USFS public lands. I will fax over my event insurance form today.

-Tom Niemela
Home: 503-681-8881
Cell: 503-803-7837
Work: 503-696-2188

===============================================
In a message dated 6/29/2005 7:30:08 AM Pacific Standard Time, dgjones@fs.fed.us writes:
Tom Niemala-

As in past years, your dual sport motorcycle tour starts and ends at Mt
Hood RV Village each day July 23-24. Your proposed route this year
involves all four districts of the Mt Hood NF...eastside Saturday, westside
Sunday. I have conferred with my co-workers around the forest and based on
their input, am prepared to make the following recommendations to the four
District Rangers:

1. With the exception of the McCubbins Gulch trail system, all trails
proposed for the tour should be denied. The only trail you showed that was
open to OHV use in the Forest Plan was the Huxley Lake trail on Clackamas
River RD. The district feels the trail is too wet this year to handle
100-150 motorcycles in one day. You stated that you have used Bonney Butte
trail and Blue Box Pass trail in past years, but they are not listed in the
Forest Plan as OHV trails.

2. All open forest roads proposed are acceptable with this caveat: use of
Still Creek Rd 2612, with subsequent crossing of Trillium Lake dam, should
be done on the morning of 7/23 with the eastbound riders. When westbound
on their return from the McCubbins area, they should stay on Hwy 26 and not
cross Trillium dam a second time when there are more recreationists out on
and about the dam area. We will not authorize your event to use the
non-USFS road across Summit Meadow -- to or from Still Creek road which has
brought complaints from the principal landowner there in past years.

If this is acceptable to you, please let me know and we can create a
permit. We'll need a copy of your liability insurance certificate again
too.

Regards,

Doug Jones
Recreation & Lands
Mt. Hood National Forest
541.352.6002 x682
Fax 541.352.7365
cell 503.708.3904
dgjones@fs.fed.us

[miloj]

Let's get some letters going folks!!
Here's mine...

Dear Mr. Larson,

Having seen the recent response from ranger Doug Jones regarding the proposed Black Dog Dualsport route, I am appalled by the lack of professionalism exhibited, as well as the prevailing attitude toward OHVs in general. The Mt. Hood USFS default OHV policy seems to be one of restriction, and Mr. Jones' attitude expresses neither a willingness nor desire to work cooperatively in addressing the reasonable requests made by Tom. I'd encourage you to consider the personal matter with the Black Dog event in the context of the district OHV policy as a whole. By any reasonable measure, making 16 out of the 1000+ available miles of dispersed single-track trail available to motorized use, with at least some of it apparently limited by moisture conditions (too wet or dry?) at any given time, is NOT considered providing OHV opportunities. Contrast that with the far more customer-oriented multiple use message coming from neighboring Gifford Pinchot NF: http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/recreation/trailbikes/

How do you explain the contrast? Mr. Jones' response that resources are tight is not a sufficient excuse for ignoring a particular user group. When given the opportunity, OHV users in various regions have proven time and time again that they will take care of themselves by maintaining multiple use trails, strictly enforcing event restrictions, and proactively working with other user groups to minimize conflicts, often because they have no other choice as dollars get directed to mainstream projects. You only need to look up the Cascade range to the north to see evidence of such successful cooperative OHV programs throughout Washington.

The demand for OHV use is certainly there, as well as the dollars from the sticker program & fuel tax, but the opportunities are not. What happened at Gibson Prairie was the direct result of the USFS not fulfilling their obligation to meet this demand. Mt. Hood provides an extensive system of trails in multiple Wilderness areas that will forever be restricted to hiking. Why shouldn't the majority of the remaining trails be open to multiple use?

Furthermore, while Doug may claim the problem to be a lack of resources, I suggest the problem is rather a lack of cooperation with willing participants, combined with excessive micromanagement overhead. When "resource specialists" must be called in to observe every tire track, we have far surpassed the point of deminishing returns in attempting to protect the environment. We know it's the uneducated bad apples that are the primary concern, and Tom's dualsport events foster positive education in every way. However, this current attitude from Mr. Jones is only serving to create divisiveness and disdain for the USFS among the community of responsible users.

In the interest of wrapping this up, I only ask that you see the bigger picture from standpoint of the event participants while giving Tom the respect he deserves in light of the unfair confrontation he's had to face over the years from certain USFS employees who've clearly crossed the line of bringing personal bias into public decision-making. In the future, I sincerely hope more agreeable terms can be reached without having to resort to tactics that will cost both sides of the debate valuable time and resources that could be better used in creating positive recreation value.

Thank you for your time.

Regards,

[Danno]

I hope Ranger Doug Jones can address some of my issues...


Mr. Doug Jones, in regards to North West Tour and Trail's Black Dog Dual Sport ride, I have some concerns. My name is Dan Hatcher and I've been involved with Tom's event for about 10 years. I've helped with course layout, trail maintenance, sweep, and pulling markers. We have spent many hours clearing wind falls on trails that would be very difficult to access without a motorized means. Sometimes we would only be able to use these trails once for the event and then they would be left in excellent shape for Hikers, Hunters, or Horseback riders. We would consider this “our part in giving back.” We wanted to be considered responsible users of the forest and encourage others by our actions. Other times we would do trail maintenance and be able to use the trails year after year. We spent a great deal of time on the Blue Box Trail, with many years use. This trail is high and remote. Very little motorized use is ever present by the lack of evidence each year we go back. Both Dennis B. and Jim T. have had conversations with me on this trail. The advice was to clear more of the windfalls instead of hopping over them. This was a Double A trail for our event and we liked the extra challenge of log hopping, but we would comply with their requests. Our Double A sections rarely had more than 20 riders (my estimate) with maybe 50- 60 riders on the A trail sections. The B course is primarily gravel and the C course mainly pavement. On the Black Dog, you could find something enjoyable at any skill level. This is part of the formula for nearly 15 years success.


The name of our club, Tour and Trails, means we want to see areas that are off the beaten path. We want our riders to be able to see God’s great creation a little bit different. We want to go to different places, seeking new routes, not the same old ride year after year. We have the transport sections that have become repetitive (Still Creek) and the great classics that would be missed if we didn’t use them (Barlow Rd.) We want the riders to be able to enjoy Mt. Hood at many different angles, whether it’s breath taking views or knowing a little of Oregon’s great history. Our participants have come from B.C. Canada, Washington, California, Nevada, Idaho, Montana, the East coast, and Europe. We our quite proud of Mt. Hood and want to share it. We recently dodged a bullet that would have closed much of our mountain. The wilderness proposal bill did not pass. I feel an obligation to show people our mountain, and to let them know what is a stake if the public is closed out of accessible pubic land. For these reasons, we passionately object to statements such as “If we can settle a route, I am going to suggest that it stay the same each year forever until there are new OHV routes. This is the same tact we are taking with the SCCA sportscar race here...same route each year.” I feel you are comparing “apples to oranges” with your reference to the SCCA. You really didn’t mean forever did you? We are street legal users of our forests, going where any other public user is allowed to go. Again, we are not a race, just a tour. Please don’t call us Tourists, though. I’ve been coming to Mt. Hood for over 40 years, and the good Lord willing, I want to enjoy this mountain for another 40 years.


Our group is filled with homegrown Oregon people. Tom’s dad was a logger. My dad drove logging truck in the 50’s. Both my Grandfathers owned sawmills. Walt’s dad had a sawmill. I have been employed in a paper mill over 25 years. Many of us have grown up with the timber industry. We are very concerned with what happens in our forests, and consider them our heritage. We see the mistakes of the past and want improvements in our future. Closing access to the public forests is not a healthy future. You want and need organizations, like ours, to be part of the solution. We need to work together. You said, “We are short-handed and don't have much time for this sort of thing,” pertaining to our course options. I would encourage you to work with us for a solution. The “My way or the Highway” doesn’t do you or us justice. It only creates animosity. Where am I going with this train of thought, you may ask? I want to share part of the conversation with a friend (rider and trail worker) and Yamhill Co. Sheriff Crabtree that took place last winter. An agent from Weyerhaeuser had told Ken M. that a particular road was soon to be gated. Unsure if it was a county road or private property, Ken asked the Sheriff if a gravel road could be closed. The Sheriff’s response was; This road can’t be shut without due process. “You riders are our eyes and ears in the forest.” Without the Motorcycle riders, Hikers, Mt. Bike riders, Hunters and Horseback riders, what is left? The people dumping trash and meth labs! The criminal element goes wild. Please Mr. Jones, work with us so we can work with you.


With the timber industry’s recession comes change. We know things can get better and want to be part of the restructuring that is now happening at a National level. Our dollars spent in the little Mom and Pop gas stations, stores, delis, etc. have always been appreciated. Most of the Mt. Hood community is supported with the tourist economy. If groups are discouraged from the area, the community suffers. We are considering other rides to other recession type areas, not to move our event, but to supplement it. We want to go where people are glad to have us. This is part of what I find so disheartening with the response given to Tom for this years permit. Plenty of people are glad we come through their neighborhoods and are glad to have us back every year. They never say anything to you the managers, but a few people are unhappy that we are using the public roads and you want us gone. Your statement “Bottom line: You need to take it or leave it as I have no time to negotiate things further,” reflects this. Please reconsider your point of view and hear the other side.


I attended the OHV workshop in Sandy last March (16th) and heard Dennis Beechler tell nearly 100 people at the meeting that dual sporting was the way to go. The motorcycles didn’t cause as much damage as the quads. Being street legal allowed access that the quad users don’t have. He named the Black Dog and the Mt. Scott club events. Now I’m curious about your statement “You may feel things went better with Dennis, but my neighbor/friend Dennis tells me things didn't go well with your group riding where they were not authorized in years past.” I’m getting mixed messages here. I know that you are not accountable for what Dennis has said in the past. Please consider all the policies that have been represented by the USFS. You said, “I am not closing things to you that are not already closed. You get to ride what is open to motorcycles now and nothing more. The agency has no major bias against OHVs, but we are also not funded or staffed to spend much time with commercial events like your's. Sorta like how we are not going to build you any trails unless someone else pays the bills.” There are trails that have been used 30 years by Motorcyclists on Mt. Hood. These areas were logged, reforested, and the skid roads were kept open until the tree growth exceeded the use. They became narrower and developed into single track. Motorcyclist’s doing much of the trail up keep. Now the trees are starting to get big and the agency wants to designate these trails “Hiking” trails. The problem is the agency has spent our tax dollars closing trails to OHVs that were created by OHVs. These are good trails and being used by other forest users. The bills have already been paid; we just don’t like trails being stolen.


There are plans for possibly 6 new OHV areas around Mt. Hood. Please let us work with you in the future. A response on these matters is greatly appreciated. Thank You, Dan Hatcher



I replied to Ranger Doug Jones because the statements were his, and I would like his reply.....Danno

[miloj]

Bravo Danno, very well written!

[dndj]

Dear Mr. Larson:

I am an avid outdoorsman and like a lot of people I enjoy my national forests in through a variety of different forms of recreation. One of my favorite activities I look forward to each year is the Northwest Tour & Trail Black Dog Dualsport scenic ride in the Mt. Hood National Forest. This year I was notified that once again, the Mt. Hood National Forest preliminary review of the proposed event route was such that the riders would only be allowed to use a very small amount of single track trail. By itself this is unfortunate as you won’t find a better group of mature, responsible riders on quiet, street-legal, licensed, and insured motorcycles.

Even more disturbing: the preliminary analysis and reasoning for these decisions given by Mr. Doug Jones was based on a multitude of incorrect facts. This, by itself shows lack of professionalism. When Tom Niemela, the event organizer, pointed out these errors, Mr. Jones acknowledged only some of his errors but failed to acknowledge that he had made decisions based on the wrong data. Specifically, the statement that “100-150 motorcycles” would use the Huxley trail is patently false. Also, he completely failed to respond to many other valid points that Tom made in his response. Besides these specific examples the general tone of Mr. Jones’ response could clearly be summed up as a rather smug “I don’t have time for this...take it or leave it…” This smacks of a rather indiscriminate and arbitrary decision making process based on opinion and bias.

This lack of professionalism by the USFS is in clear violation of the stated mission and guiding principles and quite frankly it’s ing.

More generally speaking, ignoring demand and popularity of OHV motorized recreation is not a solution. It’s a pity that less than 10% of the approximately 1000 miles of trails in the MHNF appears to be available for motorized use. Demand for motorized access to our public lands continues to increase and continued polices of “management by closure” will eventually create more problems than it solves, and further, I would argue are specifically in violation of these statements straight from the USFS primary mission (from http://www.fs.fed.us/aboutus/mission.shtml):

- Listening to people and responding to their diverse needs in making decisions.

- Protecting and managing the National Forests and Grasslands so they best demonstrate the sustainable multiple-use management concept.

- Helping States and communities to wisely use the forests to promote rural economic development and a quality rural environment.


Other National Forests, under the same global USFS mission, vision, and guiding principles maintain active multiple-use trail systems are proof points and great examples that this can and indeed does work. Gifford Pinchot NF in Washington is one example. I would submit that if the MHNF could take the amount of effort spent barricading and closing trails and instead redirect those resources to work with OHV volunteer organizations to maintain and responsibly use trails we would all be better off in the end and I believe a step closer to realizing the spirit of the USFS mission.

Thanks for listening.

Dale J.

[Bonnie Meadowes]

reasonable and responcible comments to the UNFS
i am so sorry
i can't find it even at the depts o'my heart
to do what you have accomplished

god knowes i tryed

its just i have written so many letters to
uSFS ect
now BRC

and when you finally realize
and you never reallly want to

"both sides" work
together